Shorting Bizzzzzzzzzzzzt
Printed From: Aurora
Category: Whatever Else
Forum Name: Off Topic
Forum Discription: The name says it all
URL: http://www.aurorashow.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=594
Printed Date: 25 May 2024 at 6:55am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.06 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Shorting Bizzzzzzzzzzzzt
Posted By: Rambler1
Subject: Shorting Bizzzzzzzzzzzzt
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 8:38am
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Nothing to do with Aurora. What do you all do to keep everything from shorting in the wet weather?
Its been raining her for a day and have the show is off line. P.S. We are going to get 2 - 4 inches of rain in the next 24 hours Thanks Andy ------------- If you're not in You're out http://www.aurorashow.com/"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: Pony_God
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 9:09am
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Nothing.
If the GFCI goes, then it's doing it's job.
If nothing blows, and I'm not all tingly when walking around, we're good. ------------- Fine. You're so smart you rig up the lights. http://www.frappr.com/dlight - D-Light users Unite! 
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Posted By: Rambler1
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 9:13am
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I was thinking about wrapping the connections with plastic wrap. Are there any reason why I shouldn't do this? ------------- If you're not in You're out http://www.aurorashow.com/">
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Posted By: Pony_God
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 9:19am
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Yep... One. More time consuming to take apart. That's it. Usually, we're fairly good as long as we're not sitting in a puddle.------------- Fine. You're so smart you rig up the lights. http://www.frappr.com/dlight - D-Light users Unite!
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Posted By: deweycooter
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 9:43am
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Make a bad weather voiceover and cross your fingers for better weather. Speaking of (and since we're off topic :D) Houston got this weird white stuff yesterday all over the place. Some of it was still here this morning, though I'm not sure where the rest of it went. ------------- http://www.deweycooter.com/wiki/index.php/Aurora - Aurora Lights Wiki http://www.aurorashow.com/"> 
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Posted By: LightChristmas
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 10:20am
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Wrapping connections is hit and miss - if water gets into a wrapped connection, you'll have a heck of time locating it, and it could cause corrosion. Best bet is to cover any exposed connections with a miniature "pup tent" made of sheet plastic and secured to the ground with a couple of "U"s made from coathanger. If any connections get a wet, a good blow with a leaf blower tends to get most of the moisture out. EDIT - Had to delete a word!  ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/"> 
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Posted By: Slinkard
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 10:51am
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Here my solution:
Move to San Diego!
And 1 year I tried the plastic wrap man it was a mess. water got stuck into all the connection and i believe it was worse b/c I did that. I decided from then on just to leave it and hope for the best. If I start to blow some fuses I launch my bad weather song and just keep the projector running holiday movies.
On a competely off topic, You guys should see my cube! 8 channels of bliss, bad part is I am the only one that has decorated!
Slink ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/"> 
Coming soon www.computerizedlights.com |
Posted By: peteandvanessa
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 11:18am
| I used baggies on a few connections the first year, then used nothing the second year. Both years worked out fine even with rain :-) |
Posted By: LightsOnLogan
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 2:36pm
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IMO, most of these products are designed with exit "weep holes" in mind to let moisture out if it should get in. Sealing those holes runs the risk of trapping moisture which could be less safe than not. That said, some pointers...
Mini lights... low risk except for the plug ends (which seem to be fairly well designed anyway)... each bulb is 2.5V so water in the individual sockets really isn't a big deal. The same goes for LEDs which run in the 2V - 3.5V range per bulb depending on color and manufacturer.
C7/C9/Curtain strobes.. could pose problems. Each bulb gets the full 120V! Most of these have two "weep holes" at the base of the bulb. If power is continually applied anything that does manage to cross the contacts usually vaporizes before any problem can occur. Even in typical wall switched applications, accumulated water will only blow the fuse in the string. In animated applications though, water accumulated in the socket when power isn't applied will cook a triac when the channel switches on. Where possible it is best to orient these with the weep holes down to let gravity do its job.
Flood Lights (Incandescent PAR type, not MR16): The WORST offenders. It is absolutely positively 100% necessary to get very good floodlight holders! The Wal*Mart $2 specials will NOT work in this application. No exceptions! You will need to get something in the $6-$10 range with all metal construction and a very good weather seal around the bulb. IMO, the cheap plastic ones in the $2 range are completely unsafe and should be taken off the market!
Puddles... It should go without saying that the above applies to typical precipitation, not to submersion in puddles. Don't place something where it will become submersed!
Now... everything I just wrote... throw it away! These are products made in China where design and material substitutions without telling anyone are pretty much business as usual. Just because something was designed correctly doesn't mean it ever was made that way! ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/"> 
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Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2008 at 3:45pm
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Your right about the floodlight bases. My 4th of July Water Lights show used, well, a lot of water. I had geysers that shot up into the air, and what goes up must come down... right on top of my floodlights. It was imperative that I had water resistant floodlight bases. Because of the eventual submersion of the extension cords, I also used a lot of electrical tape, and even that failed on me a few times. If it is really a concern, you can add a bit of plumbers putty around the connection then tape that shut, but even then that's nothing more than a gamble. GFCI's are essential, and they saved my butt so many times it's unbelievable. I like the idea of an inclement weather announcement. I've got a technical difficulties (show back online soon) announcement, and a technical difficulties (show canceled tonight) announcement, so that's makes sense to have that as well. ------------- ~Jonathan |
Posted By: Pony_God
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 8:14am
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It's been really rainy here yesterday and today. The only problem we have is a single GFCI that keeps tripping, even though that's the dryest outlet/wires/controller in the entire yard!
I just re-routed around the GFCI and everything runs.
Although, our LEDs are on about 80% on the one controller now. Humidity must be doing something with the power leak in the board. ------------- Fine. You're so smart you rig up the lights. http://www.frappr.com/dlight - D-Light users Unite!
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Posted By: LightsOnLogan
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 9:21am
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If those are the 2008 CDI LEDs in the longer counts, any of mine that are "superstranded" (braided together with other colors on other channels) act crazy whenever it gets foggy out. It seems they "see" the neighboring strands (other colors) braided with them in the "superstrand" and start glitching accordingly. ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/">
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Posted By: Pony_God
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2008 at 11:42am
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Nope, Target el-cheapos I believe. At least they are the mini/micros from a local chain. Some are from Lowes though. It's strill really odd that it's primarily the two controllers. Not quire sure what's going in with them.
The other three that have LEDs are fine. ------------- Fine. You're so smart you rig up the lights. http://www.frappr.com/dlight - D-Light users Unite!
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Posted By: bdkeen
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2008 at 5:06pm
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GFI's and I have been beating each other up - well we were anyway. Ended up routing around the GFI breakers.. We've been running rain or no rain. Ohter than a weak breaker in a surge bar tht kept tripping everything has been running excellent. ------------- 
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Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2008 at 7:36pm
That's a big risk you are taking.  GFCI's exist for a reason, and if they trip that's also for a reason. Bypassing them because they trip is, IMHO, asking for trouble. Is it more important for the show to run, or to prevent your boards from accidentally being fried? Unless the news crew was filming, I know what I'd choose. Good luck mate; I hope it works out for you!
------------- ~Jonathan |
Posted By: bdkeen
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2008 at 8:16pm
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The purpose of GFCI isn't to protect electronic equipment. Their primary purpose is to offer personal protection against electrical shock wherever there is the potential for contact between a person and an electrical appliance. So if I'm stupid enough to go grabbing wires in the rain then I probably deserve what I might get. Only bypassed the GFIs because I'm also providing other forms of protection on the circuits feeding the controllers as well. Bypassing is temporary until properly functioning GFCI's are installed. Tested the GFIs in question and should trip when a drop off in the current is equivalent to about 5 milliamperes (the way a GFCI works) and they were tripping at lower. I have others that don't give me the problem.
We normally don't get that much water this time of the year as we did when major storm system moved up the northeast. Never had any problems with the snow. -------------
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Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2008 at 12:52am
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I'll be the first to admit I am not an expert (or even an amateur) with regards to electricity. I just know that I tend to blow electrical things up when I mess with them and that my water lights show kept tripping the GFCI's. Water would seep through the electrical tape covering the extension cord connections that would end up partially submerged. My power strips never went off though. Even if you know what you are doing, I still think it's a good idea to err on the side of caution. ------------- ~Jonathan |
Posted By: Slinkard
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2008 at 9:44pm
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Becuase I talked about you guys moving to SD, Karma caughtup to me. Been raining bad here and windy. My 6 foot twig tree's fell over so I went to put them back up and bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! yep got a good shock. I thought if the systems boards where not running power would not be going to the tree's. NOT THE CASE! not a huge shock but those tree's will be down until a sunny day dry's them out. Thats what I get,
Slink ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/">
Coming soon www.computerizedlights.com |
Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2008 at 11:44pm
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I posted this over on D-Light's site, but since we are on the subject, I too got hit by that same storm... Wow, what a night it's been.  It rained here today, quite a bit in fact. The local mountains got 3 feet of snow out of the storm. Down here all we got was soaking wet, and that's where it all began... I got home and checked my lights. All was well except one firefly strand was dead. Turns out the power supply got wet and won't work. I guess my safe dry spot for it was anything but. I only figured this out when it shocked me.  Funny thing was that my GFCI didn't trip. Thankfully, 12VDC is a lot less than 110VAC! (Been there, done that!)So I added my inclement weather spiel to the sequence list in a few spots that apologizes for lights not working and kept on truckin'. I went out a bit later to see that one of my ACx16's was blinking, as was the status LED on the wiLink remote. I power cycled, no change. Not wanting to interrupt the show, I ran a CAT5 cable from that box to another ACx16. All was well again until... I saw one channel on my mega tree sticking on. Hopefully the triac didn't die on me; I'm no good at fixing that kind of stuff. I went outside only to discover that two more fireflies were also now dark as was the problem ACx16 and my DCx16. Ignoring the stuck channel, I quickly figured out that a tripped GFCI was to blame for the other issues. I reset it, and it stayed on, so I left it at that. Turn out I got about 5 minutes worth before it tripped again. Reset, same thing. Finally, I killed the scheduler, had the HW Utility turn on power to everything that could see it, and played my technical difficulties soundtrack while I quickly built a new show with inclement weather spiels after each song, then started it all back up again. To isolate what was causing the GFCI to trip, I ran an extension cord to a different GFCI outlet and powered just the ACx16 and the DCx16 with it, and I left the fireflies on the outlet that kept tripping. So far neither have tripped, but it's only been half an hour. The bad news is that the forecast is rain, rain, and more rain for the next few days. At this rate the only thing I'll be playing by that time is my "show canceled" sequence.  Oh well. I guess you can only do so much. Hopefully things will get better sooner than later!  ------------- ~Jonathan |
Posted By: bdkeen
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 7:31am
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Yeah, rain again last night .. I've been back on the GFCI breakers and didn't have any problem after replacing, removing, and rerouting some wires, plus elevating plugs that I suspected might be a cause of the GFCI trips. No trips last night but did lose 1 channel on 1 controller. But when I discovered that the business end of a rope light was submerged in about 3 inches of water that had built up - I'm not surprised at the channel loss.. Most likely took out a triac. Fortunatly it's a channel that was sort of spare and not driving any major display item.
Needless to say drain holes were made in the display item that trapped the water to help prevent the water build up. -------------
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Posted By: Pony_God
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 8:23am
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With all of the rain, have any of you noticed that your LEDs are more on than normal? We usually have a 2% glow, but with the rain/humidity there are some strings that are about 80-90% on. I did not happen to measure the few channels that were leaking the 1-2VAC before to see if there is more of a leak yet.
As for GFCIs, we have one hat hates humidity. Trips as soon as the B side goes in. Now, on that controller, every time that it's plugged in, there is a spark, of course, that's quite odd, since there ground is compleately seperate and cannot touch anything since we use the heatsink as the ground-bar. I have not opened him up to look yet because I didn't really want it to rain INTO the controller box, but will probably take a quick look when it's light and dry out. See if there's a single errant wire from a crimp that's raoming free. ------------- Fine. You're so smart you rig up the lights. http://www.frappr.com/dlight - D-Light users Unite!
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Posted By: LightsOnLogan
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 1:40pm
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As I reported elsewhere, the glitches on my CDI LEDs greatly increase when it gets wet out. There is one purple channel that is particularly bad whenever it rains. Fog seems to be the worst offender though.
I haven't taken any measurements when the lights are doing this (standing in a water puddle in the rain while moving plugs around to check circuits with a DMM doesn't sound safe or even remotely desireable to me). Maybe if we get some fog again I'll meter it. ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/">
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Posted By: LightChristmas
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 1:49pm
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You might get your wish tonight. We're getting freezing fog here right now.
------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/">
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Posted By: LightsOnLogan
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 2:07pm
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Freezing fog?? Can't say I've ever experienced that combination!
It is interesting how meterological terms vary a bit depending on where you are at. I recently was somewhere where the official NWS report included a "drizzle mist". I had never heard of a "drizzle mist" before! My understanding was that drizzle is scientifically quantified as rain which is less than 1/50 inch in diameter (I know, who's got the ruler out), and that mist is more of a fog (I'm not sure of the distinction between mist and fog). At least that is how it is used here. I guess a "drizzle mist" is drizzle happening while it is foggy? ------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/">
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Posted By: Pony_God
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 2:13pm
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So does that mean that you can cut the fog with a knife?
We don't have any puddles, ground down here is all sugar-sand so it has to be pretty well saturated to make puddles.
Now that I have a bit of time tonight, if everyone's glowing I'm going to measure and record for a dry day. I need to look at #10 because of the GFCI anyway, look for an errant wire fray near ground. ------------- Fine. You're so smart you rig up the lights. http://www.frappr.com/dlight - D-Light users Unite!
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Posted By: LightChristmas
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 3:06pm
Like freezing rain, but much more insidious. Take a dense fog, then freeze it. Creates black ice on the roads almost instantly - as one of our newsies found out when they hurried out to do a story about hazardous driving conditions; and put one of our news vehicles in a ditch a few hundred yards from the station. Guess they can save the trouble of finding an accident now and report themselves.
------------- http://www.aurorashow.com/">
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Posted By: bdkeen
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2008 at 3:54pm
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Remember that freezing fog and black ice well from 6 yrs living in England. We get some here but no where near what they get 'over the pond'.
For us here in Eastern PA looks like sleet and snow event coming tonight . We're about 50% LED here. The full wave m5 greens from Holiday Light Express have been excellent. The LED ropes from eBay have also been excellent (~550 ft., 4 colors). The Home Depot, Lowes, K-Mart strings have all been performing well too - No real issues other than the difference in ramps that one would expect to see between minis and LED. The only ones I'm not 100% happy with are whites from Sams Club.. Fades were almost nonexistant until I flashed firmware 1.15 on that controller which seems to have improved them somewhat.. Doesn't seem to matter what the atmosphere throws at us LED's seem to be the same wet, dry, warm, or cold..
Now I wish I could say the minis have all been good.. GE pro (slightly larger bulb) reds been losing half a string on some of the mini trees.
Shouldn't have anymore 3-4 inch deep deposits of water now that a large drain hole (size of hammer head  ) got punched into the device that was accumulating water, and the forgotten wire tie has been installed to prevent a plug from falling in and becoming submerged.-------------
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